THE CASE OF GOING WEST
Crime and Empathy
an interview with Daphne Woolsoncroft by Julia Scrive-Loyer
Agent Cooper once said: “Everyday, once a day, give yourself a present”. I may not follow that advice everyday, but I do follow it twice a week, when I religiously tune in to listen to Going West, one of the most empathic and genuine true crime podcasts out there. As a twitter user said, “do you ever listen to a podcast and just know you would be best friends with them? That’s how I feel about Heath and Daphne”. That feeling precisely gave me the courage to approach them for an interview, and their response only confirmed the strange bond we build with the voices we listen to every week through the wavelengths.
The idea of a couple having a true crime podcast sounded to me like a match made in heaven, so I wanted to know more about who they were and who they are outside the podcast. I was surprised when Daphne told me they had a virtual matchmaker: “I am from Los Angeles, but my dad moved to Oregon when I was in my late teen years. I was working remotely in early 2018 and decided to visit my dad for an extended period of time to experience a new place. And when I was there, I signed up for the dating app Tinder (so I could meet new people) and Heath was the first person I talked to”. While Daphne was working for a wine brand, Heath was studying Environmental Studies “in hopes of becoming a Park Ranger and working in the forests of Oregon”. Heath’s love for and knowledge of the outdoors is made evident throughout the podcast, and it’s always put to good use in the cases they cover. “We met at a bar for some drinks and realized we had the same taste in music, the same love for horror movies, and so much more. A year and a half later, we started talking about starting a True Crime podcast”.
Now, it’s one thing to hit it off with someone, and it’s another thing to start a true crime podcast together. “Heath and I have both been interested in spooky stories since we were young, and he grew up watching Dateline and Cold Case Files with his mom”, Daphne says, “we were big fans of other True Crime podcasts, but I always wanted to start my own because my mom's sister disappeared in the 1980's, and I had dreamed about being able to build a platform to tell her story. So we bought some microphones, and 2 weeks later we released our first episode”. The case of Daphne’s aunt was covered in Going West’s 100th episode, and it was actually the first one I listened to, which instantly reeled me in: “My mom's sister Carol Woolsoncroft disappeared in 1984 (so before I was born), and knowing her story from an early age always made me want to be a detective or work in the True Crime field in some way. I dropped the dream of becoming a detective in my teen years, but hoped I would be able to find something else to fill that gap. And being a True Crime Podcaster has been the perfect job for both of us!”
In this golden age of podcasting, opting for that medium might seem obvious, but it wasn’t their first choice: “Heath and I originally discussed making a true crime documentary about my aunt Carol's case because we have a lot of filmmaking friends'', but “the idea of a podcast seemed a lot more attainable and it would only require the two of us”. But don’t get the idea that Heath and Daphne chose the easy way out: the decision of making a podcast — which requires perseverance and hard work to build an audience that low-key becomes obsessed with what you do — had more to do with it being a “better place to start”, as she puts it, and I might add, a better place to grow over time: “with a True Crime Podcast, we could work on it every week and release episodes for as long as we wanted to. With a documentary, it would eventually (and probably pretty quickly) come to an end, and then what?” Which doesn’t mean they’re not planning to do it someday.
Heath and Daphne have recently started releasing not one, but two episodes per week, aside from the bonus episodes they release for their patrons over at Patreon. The amount of work they put into this project is truly admirable, as well as the relationship they have built with their audience, who often suggest cases to them. When they look outside those suggestions, they “have to scour the internet for sometimes days to find the next case”, and even then they have their audience in mind: “We look for cases that (usually) aren't widely covered by other podcasts, so that people can hear something they haven't heard and so stories that aren't in the spotlight can get more attention”. The other day, on a YouTube comment for a video from That Chapter, a woman thanked Mike for putting the name of the victim in the title of his videos, and not the name of the killer. Her son had been murdered. It was only then I truly understood another of the aspects that feels so special about Going West, where Daphne and Heath always do the same. They not only put the victim’s name in the spotlight, they also take the time to tell us who they were, how loved they were, where they were going in life, “we do a deep dive into the research and try to find out who the victim was and what their story was before they met their tragic end”. This adds a ton of humanity to each of their episodes, and turns them into something other than a case of curiosity to understand the killer, but into a place in which the victim can be remembered, where they can get some justice.
This is an important aspect of Going West, which became even more relevant with the recent Gabby Petito case, which they covered in real time. Petito’s case may have been solved, but Daphne and Heath continue putting the spotlight on cases that haven’t, whether they have gone cold or are very much recent. “We can only hope that one day one of our unsolved episodes brings answers to a case, but that is sadly very rare! So other than that, we love covering them because It's always so interesting to put our heads together and speak with our listeners about their personal theories. Discussing the different possibilities and trying to "solve" something is so fascinating and exciting — even if you sadly can't come to a conclusion yourself”. I used to stay away from unsolved cases before listening to Going West, since the cases often left me feeling anxious, but with them I learned how to put that anxiety to good use by trying to mentally solve something, because after all, I’ve always wanted to be a detective, so what kind of a detective would I be if I wanted everything to be handed to me on a silver platter. And yet, in some episodes, I’ve heard Heath and Daphne apologize for discussing theories on these unsolved murders or disappearances, “some of our listeners have expressed frustrations with Heath and I discussing theories, because they just want the facts. And as you said, it can leave you anxious not having answers, which bothers us too! But the more people that think about a case and the more conversation that revolves around one can lead to an ending”. I believe this is a great way to trigger our own reflection as listeners, becoming engaged and brought closer to these cases. The empathy levels go through the roof, which is of course painful at times, but empathy should be humanity’s main fuel.
I spend a lot of my time listening to true crime podcasts, and have been fascinated with detectives, whether they be real or fictitious, for as long as I can remember. It’s impossible to not notice the amount of true crime content — and especially podcasts — that has appeared in the last 10 years or so, and how there seems to be an audience for all of them. I myself listen every single week to five different true crime podcasts: Going West, The Murder Squad, Killer Psyche, Crimes of the Centuries and Tenfold More Wicked, and I have also followed both seasons of In the Dark. Each of these podcasts have their own style, approach and goal, and the hosts come from different backgrounds, whether they’re retired FBI agents or detectives, excellent journalists and authors or passionate amateur sleuths. But, to have a Carrie Bradshaw moment, now that I’m smoking my cigarette staring into the distance, I couldn’t help but wonder… what draws us to true crime? This is a question recently discussed by Sarah Marshall and Emma Berquist on You’re Wrong About. Daphne offered her perspective on the subject: “I think people like to be scared. And even a lot of people who don’t like to be scared are drawn to horrible stories, because they're shocking. People like drama and conflict and tragedy in some form. We don't want it to happen to us (or anyone for that matter), and I think that's why it's so interesting hearing that it happens to other people. As horrified as it makes us and as sad as the stories are to hear, I think people also like being sympathetic, and it makes us feel lucky and grateful that we didn't meet the same fate as these poor victims. I think there's also definitely the factor of human nature! It's fascinating to learn how some people can be so evil and can "enjoy" doing bad things — we can't wrap our heads around how someone could enjoy killing someone. So hearing different instances and getting inside a killer's head is just bewildering, and we want to know why. I think True Crime fans hate it as much as they "love" it”. This love-hate relationship with true crime is endearingly made evident when you listen to Going West; Heath will often drag the murderer calling them all sorts of names, and I absolutely love it. Where other podcasts do their best to try and remain impartial or take the time to try to understand the killer’s mind, Heath and Daphne take it as personal as possible and always fight for the victim. I know that if I want a psychological study of the killer I’ll listen to Killer Psyche or Tenfold More Wicked, but when I want a cathartic experience where I can actually have space to grieve for the victim, Going West is the perfect spot to do so, among hosts that feel like friends.
Nevertheless, that kind of spontaneity and candidness requires time, “I definitely think we were a bit more nervous and uptight in the beginning (more like the first year). If you listen to our first episode vs our most recent, you'll hear the difference. We used to be very unsure of ourselves and worried about how we would stand out in such a saturated space, that we were scared to let loose so we didn't turn anyone off. But over the years, we have let our true selves out a lot more so that our listeners get to know us. Although we require things like ads in our show, we want the show to be the most authentic it can be. At the end of the day, it's just Heath and I telling everyone a crazy story, and we don't want to stray from that”. That closeness isn’t only made evident through the way they tell us these stories, but also with how open they are about their changes in life — like for example how often they move, which amuses their subscribers who jokingly tell them the podcast will soon be named “Going West, Going South, Going North, Going East, and Going West Again” —, and the changes in their podcast, openly addressing the new things they want to try, the things they feel don’t work, listening to their audience’s feedbacks, etc. This makes Going West feel like a big family, one in which we are heard, where we feel we are part of their growth, and it basically reminds us that the voices behind the podcast are humans like us, which feels so heartwarming and comforting in a world that is ruled by algorithms and branding.
And speaking of humanity, I always have to ask if covering this amount of true crime has somewhat changed their perspective on the world: “We are significantly more paranoid about pretty much everything. We are more cautious and more careful as well, though. So, as much as we can sometimes scare ourselves in situations that end up okay, we are grateful to be quicker thinkers after researching so many horrible stories. And I think that's something our listeners can gain as well. We can all learn from other people's stories and hopefully save ourselves if we were ever unlucky enough to be in direct danger. It's also very devastating to realize how many people on this earth have bad intentions and want to hurt you.” Because it’s one thing to be a listener and it’s another to dedicate your everyday life to research these cases, so I was also wondering what they do to take their minds off work: “Since we spend each working day discussing and reading about true crime, we try not to make it a big part of our personal time. We have watched significantly less horror movies and true crime documentaries since starting the show, because it can be really overwhelming to have your day filled with so much sadness. As much as we love watching creepy movies and all the latest true crime documentaries, we try to sprinkle in lots of comedy movies and time with friends and family to get our minds off all the tragedy we read about and see on screen”.
So other than moving all over the country, where are Daphne and Heath headed? Podcast creation, like being an artist, isn’t something you retire from at a specific age. How do they see their work evolve throughout their lives? I was afraid that question would sound terrifying, but Daphne is brave, so she delivered: “We've decided that we'll keep doing the podcast as long as we can and as long as people will listen to it! We see ourselves having kids in a few years (we got engaged a year ago), and have wondered if once that happens, if we'll want to retire from telling tragic stories and focus on more positive ventures. But at the end of the day, we love having a podcast and we love being a part of the true crime community. There's so many amazing podcasters and listeners out there that make it all worth it, and it's sad to think about leaving that. So we want to keep podcasting for many years to come if we can”. But their plans also go beyond podcasting and starting a family — I mean, another family, aside from us listeners —, “I have always been very entrepreneurial and have started so many different businesses. Heath and I both have dreams of doing multiple other things alongside the podcast so that we can achieve all our goals- and we are working on that! After working in the wine industry in my early 20's, I hope to have my own wine brand and am working on that right now. We also want to open a restaurant (which is something that's slowly been in the works for a few months), and much more. Thankfully, the podcast gives us a lot of flexibility, so we want to do multiple things at once. We both are working on thriller novels (as we both love writing), and as I mentioned above, we'd love to make a documentary! So there's lots of things in the works for both of us. Stay tuned!”
I’ll have whatever Heath and Daphne cook, write, show me or make me listen to, and I know a lot of people feel the same way. I find it beautiful to know that somewhere out there, there’s a couple who make a great team, who enjoy working together and who work so hard and passionately to bring us a content they love. Whatever the reason may be that draws us to true crime, I know that what draws me to Going West is, above all, what draws me to the things I love: the people behind it, their honesty, their love. In this new year that is barely starting, in which things might feel hopelessly unchanged, I want to once again stand against the comfort of cynicism. I’d rather stand for those little gifts Agent Cooper told me about when I was a teenager, and for me, it’s the pleasure of witnessing people do what they love.